Hassell 董事王翀：少些建造，多些体验

Hassell1938年成立于澳大利亚，经过逾八十年的开拓与沉淀，现已成为一家国际设计公司，在澳大利亚，中国，新加坡、英国和美国设有设计事务所，各大作品闻名遐迩，2010年，该公司被评为澳大利亚最大的建筑公司和全球第25大建筑公司。

mooool团队聚焦景观设计行业，本期mooool专辑带来的是Hassell董事王翀的专访。mooool每季度约访全球知名设计公司，传播展现优秀设计理念！

Back in 1938, Hassell was founded in Australia by a small group of architects with a big vision. Over 80+ years, Hassell has worked on projects of every scale and type, from iconic public buildings to entire city precincts – and everything in between. Today, Hassell is a leading international design practice with studios in Asia, Australia, the United States, and the United Kingdom. In 2010, Hassell was awarded the largest architectural company in Australia and the 25th largest architectural company in the world.

Mooool focuses on landscape architecture industry. In today’s interview, we introduce Chong Wang, Principal of Hassell. We interview the prestigious design company around the world every quarter with the passion for showing the excellent design ideas.

总策划：陈科君 / Producer: Kejun Chen
主编辑：王兰芳、陈虹羽 / Editor: Via Wang, Chen Hongyu

Interview: Mooool x Chong Wang

专访内容:

Q：可否先跟我们聊聊您设计生涯的背景，以及在项目开展的过程中您所采用的设计手法？

Could you tell us about your background and your design journey? And can you explain what your approach is when working on projects?

我从华南理工大学建筑系毕业，后到荷兰代尔夫特大学学习城市设计，期间还在威尼斯建筑学院进行了一段时间的交换学习。硕士毕业后我在都柏林工作多年后于2011年回到上海加入Hassell。

这样的经历让我对城市场所的多元性非常敏感，针对项目会通过用各种视角来审视。我认为，成功的建筑和片区需要平衡多个维度，包括开发运营、使用者的体验、城市环境的需求等等。当然还有文化的差异，离开场地文脉来做设计，已经证明是行不通的。

但无论如何，人作为城市空间的终端使用者，他们的情绪和功能需求是我最为感兴趣的。而就像杨-盖尔所总结的，首先是人，再到场所空间，最后才是建筑，而不能本末倒置。

I joined Hassell 2011 after moving to Shanghai from Dublin where I had been working for a few years after my graduation from Delft University of Technology in Netherlands. I had obtained a master degree in urban design and during my time there, I also went to the Università IUAV di Venezia in Italy as an exchange student. The very starting point of my design journey was a bachelor degree of architecture at the South China University of Technology.

If I had to summarise my approach to project work, I would say I believe successful buildings and precincts are about balancing various aspects – operations, user experience, commercial goals and requirements from the urban environment. And cultural specifities of each context play a huge role and need to be factored in as well – we know that design that doesn’t take the site’s context into central consideration is unsuccessful. This is not just my approach, but the fundamental way in how we approach every project at Hassell.

I’m always thinking about the humans who will be the end users of any of the spaces I and our team design – their functional and emotional needs. This is actually the most interesting part of design to me. As Jan Gehl famously said: “First life, then spaces, then buildings – the other way around never works.”

▼悉尼哈罗德公园 Harold Park, Sydney.

Q：不只是在Hassell，从业以来，让您感悟最深的项目是什么？为什么？

From your entire design career – not only at Hassell, what’s the most impressive project you have ever done? And Why?

对我来说，每一个新的项目都带来全新的挑战：不同的场地、业主、合作方对项目都有不同的期待，我们为此组织的内部团队也不一样。在中国社会经济发展迅速，人们对场所的要求是日新月异的，我们无法不断学习。成功经验无法完全复制，这让我对每个即将要开始的项目都充满热情和期待。

Every project presents some sort of new challenge to me: sites are in different new locations, clients and collaborators have their own aspirations on projects and our approach at Hassell is to match the most relevant expertise and talent with every project. With the rapid economic and social development of China, people’s demands on places are changing. We have to learn quickly as a successful experience can’t necessarily be repeated, and we set a high standard for every project.

▼Hassell部分作品展示（点击阅读更多） Click here to read more Hassell works on mooool

Q：“设计如何使自然重回中国城市？”，这是我在你们的“让树木重回上海”研究中看到的问题，可以向我们详细阐述设计团队做了哪些具体措施吗？这里面有哪些难题和学问？

“How can design bring nature back into China’s cities?”. I saw this question in your “Bringing trees back to Shanghai” research. Would you please tell us more about the approach and what challenges and learnings you had from the research?

我们在这个研究中采访了上海不同街道的市民，了解他们对自然的理解，以及他们对城市的生态空间的期待。超过85%的受访者认为上海的绿化不够，同时他们也指出城市中现有的公园绿化不能代表“自然”，因为不能让人有“沉浸感”，无法“远离城市喧嚣”，同时现有的设计让人感受到很多障碍，不可达。

我们一直都在探寻这个问题，将有限的空间更可能的还给自然-真的自然，不是盆景式的景观。这需要真正转变人们对于“自然”的观念，从管理角度来说，自然“无序且杂乱的”，“管理难度很大”，“与国际城市的高端和精致形象产生冲突”。我想设计可以改变这一印象，同时让人们在城市中体验真正的自然。

We interviewed people living in different Shanghai districts, trying to understand what ‘nature’ means to them and their expectations for urban space. Over 85% of the respondents thought that Shanghai wasn’t green enough and didn’t feel that human-built parks feel like nature, because they seem detached from people and don’t provide an immersive experience. They said they struggled to find spaces for a moment of escape from the busy city. We found that the design of these parks was actually keeping people away from people them.

We are always exploring the question: how to restore real nature in limited spaces rather than building large scale potted landscapes for the city. This in part requires people changing their perception about what the word ‘nature’ means. From a management perspective, nature is ‘disorderly chaotic, it’s ‘very hard to manage’ and it somewhat disrupts the high-end image of an international city. My vision for designing urban public spaces is to change these perceptions and enable more natural spaces for city people.

▼参与“让树木重回上海”调研的受访市民 Shanghai citizen who took part in our survey “Bringing trees back to Shanghai”.

Q：对于当前盛行的“示范区形式主义”设计，您的看法是怎样的？您认为景观是科学还是艺术？中国的景观设计应当注重哪方面的特殊性？

What are your thoughts on the recent prevailing ‘formalism of designing for exemplar zones’? Do you think landscape architecture is science or art? In China, what specific aspect of landscape design should we be more aware of?

我认为当景观学科放到城市的层面上来看待时，会更加体现其综合和多元性。好的景观塑造需要满足功能的需求，城市发展愿景的需求，也要满足当代城市居民对美感的需求。科学和艺术都可以是景观塑造的其中的一个层面，从景观的塑造角度来说，政府、开发商、设计师和空间使用者的相互影响形成一个建设周期的闭环推动着专业的发展。

在中国，随着人们对生活品质和休闲的多元要求，对优质的公共景观空间的要求也越来越高，所以近年来，越来越多的优秀公共景观设计项目得到呈现。比如Hassell参与的黄浦江滨江贯通和公共空间打造体现了景观提升对城市生活品质提升带来的重大作用。在设计过程中的公共参与的程度也越来越高，这些变化会很大程度上改变你所提到的“形式主义”，最终城市空间需要被使用、被参与、被喜爱。

I think landscape architecture should be considered at a city level. The intrinsic value of landscape architecture is comprehensive and diversified. Great landscape design responds to the requirements from a functional level, it should be a vision of development as well as meeting aesthetic needs. Science and arts are different aspects of landscape shaping. Government, developers, architects and end users influence each other and together they form an enclosed loop over a project period that promotes the development of landscape architecture.

In China, with the growth of demand for quality lifestyle and diversified leisure requirements, people expect more quality public spaces. In recent years, we have seen many great public landscape projects. For example, the Huangpu East Bank Urban Forest and the North Bund Waterfront projects designed by Hassell show us how landscape can hugely lift the quality of life in cities. And during the design process, we incorporated a high level of public involvement too. So I think the ‘formalism’ you mentioned won’t survive for too long. Ultimately, urban spaces will be proved successful if people use them, engage with them, love them and protect them.

▼景观提升对城市生活品质提升的重大作用-黄浦江东岸开放空间贯通设计 How landscape can hugely lift the quality of life in cities – Huangpu East Bank Urban Forest.

▼景观提升对城市生活品质提升的重大作用-上海虹口北外滩滨江公共空间贯通设计 How landscape can hugely lift the quality of life in cities – Shanghai North Bund Waterfront.

Q：除了上海、深圳这样的一线城市，您有没有对国内其他不同情况的城市或乡村进行过调查研究，或者说，对这些少有大师青睐的“干涩”版块，您或者Hassell有没有下一步的计划或想法？

Apart from Shanghai, Shenzhen and other first tier cities in China, have you undertaken research in more remote areas? Do you or Hassell have any plans for these ‘dry’ areas?

我们希望更多的参与到我们所居住的城市及周边的城市建设中，所以我们在中国的大部分的业务都集中在几个大的城市群。我们对这些城市的信息掌握更全面，对城市环境也有更多直观深刻的理解。

我们对这些主要城市群的关注不是因为这里单纯有机会让我们展示设计实力，而是因为在这里城市性问题复杂且突出，亟待解决。比如我们在深圳参与的“保障房”竞赛，关注的是这个城市的居住可承担性问题，或者我们在成都“熊猫之都”（2019年度新加坡景观设计奖 — 分析规划类别杰出卓越奖）关注的生态链中“伞护种”的问题等等。

Most of our business in China is in and around the big city clusters, particularly the cities we live and have a presence in. We have more all-round information about these areas and a deeper and direct understanding of the urban context.

Our focus on these city clusters in China is partly a response to complicated and acute problems that need immediate responses. For example, in Shenzhen, we have been involved in the International Affordable Housing Competition. The design we delivered was trying to address the affordability issue which is becoming increasingly pressing around the world. And the Panda Land Masterplan project in Chengdu focuses on how master planning can support biodiversity by designing for ‘umbrella species’.

▼“熊猫之都”总体规划聚焦如何通过为“伞护种”设计来促进生物多样性 Panda Land Masterplan- How master planning can support biodiversity by designing for ‘umbrella species’.

▼“熊猫之都”总体规划 Panda Land Masterplan.

我们还通过环境与社区设计领域（Environment and Communities），更人性化地关注城市化进程中的多个维度。我们与全世界最优秀的研究人员、业内专家和设计人才协作，为面临着特殊挑战的社区打造更平等，更具韧性的未来。

Through our Environment and Communities sector, areas like rural China come more into focus, as we collaborate with the world’s best in research, industry and design to create a more equitable and resilient future for communities that are facing specific challenges.

▼深圳南澳西涌城市设计 Xichong Recovery Plan and Urban Design.

Q：从景观相关行业的看客角度来说，我们常看到国内项目的落地性与国外相差甚大，您认为主要原因是什么？Hassell这样的大公司在这些方面做了哪些努力？

From a spectator’s view, we see that the quality of realizing or delivering projects are far from what we have seen in other developed countries. What do you think is the reason for this? As an international design practice, how does Hassell impact the increased quality of final design outcomes?

一个项目的概念设计到最终建成需要整个周期的参与者的协作。在建设周期中，决策条件变化带来设计变更，在任何一个国家都是存在的。

Hassell 在世界上许多城市均设立了事务所，形成全球统一的管理体系。我们共同分享研究成果、项目经验，设计领导负责全球各地的项目，各个设计事务所平等地参与设计讨论和对话。我们关注同样的东西-文脉、场地条件、客户需求，创造美和体验。这使得我们能够保持高标准的设计和建成质量。

我们也把在中国市场上获得的宝贵实践经验，用于设立Hassell全球设计的标准。

From concept to completion, the entire life circle of a project requires collaboration between many different parties. Each part of the process can go wrong, and this can then have an impact on the design and the design outcomes. But this is something that can and does happen in all countries.

Hassell has studios around the world and we have an integrated approach managing projects. We share our research results and project experience and our design leaders look after global projects. We approach projects with the same philosophy – aspiration, context, function and beauty and ultimately creating great experiences for people using the space. With our holistic way of designing and managing collaborators and partners, we have strong delivery capacity as we manage outputs throughout the design stages. And this helps us deliver great design outcomes and ensure the quality of the built project.

Our valuable, specific experience acquired here in China also helps build Hassell global design standards.

▼上海三林印象城 – 通过改造原有老旧过时的商业开发，创造了全新的社交中心、风尚目的地和社区中心 Sanlin InCity Mall – By reviving a local retail development that was on the decline, Hassell created a new social hub, lifestyle destination and community heart.

Q：您认为国内目前的设计已经缩小了与发达国家之间的差距吗？

Do you think the current design quality in China is getting closer to that of developed countries?

我认为国内设计行业的工业化和专业化程度都在提高。上海以内的主要大城市率先提出世界级都市的目标，在下一个十到十五年的建设周期中来实现。

从某种程度上说，中国在大型项目上的推动能力非常有效率，让居民和到访者深刻感受到了城市空间品质提升所带来的宜居体验提升，比如这几年的滨江建设，公园城市建设和城市更新。而发达国家经历过经济增长和生活质量提升的这个阶段，现在正对设计提出更高的生态和环境保护的标准，而中国在这方面取得的进展也相当瞩目。

I can see that that the design industry is going from strength to strength rapidly all across China. All the big cities, including Shanghai, are striving to become work class metropolises within the next 10-15 years.

To some extent, China has a strong capability in delivering super-large scale projects. The efforts are visible to local citizens and the visitors. People are now enjoying improved urban spaces and liveability – such as more accessible waterfront spaces, park cities and all sorts of urban renewal projects taking place. Other countries that went through economic growth and improving quality of life earlier are setting higher standards for environmental sustainability, although China has made incredibly rapid progress in this area too.

▼宜居体验提升 – 滨江建设：上海虹口北外滩滨江公共空间贯通设计 Improved urban spaces and liveability – accessible waterfront spaces: Shanghai North Bund Waterfront.

▼城市更新 – 新桥开源智创城：将深圳新桥转型为在社区居民共同参与中不断演进的智慧、生态和可持续的城市片区 Urban renewal – Xinqiao Open Source City: The vision for the future of the project is for an intelligent, ecological and sustainable urban district that’s continually co-designed by its community.

Q：Hassell目前在国内的落地项目也有很多，可以向我们的读者详细介绍几个重点项目背后的理念与特色吗？

Hassell has quite a lot built projects in China, could you please take us through some key projects? What’s the concept and why they are different?

中国城市已经历了数十年的高速发展，当前城市更新和重新定位正在发生。我们看到越来越多的项目把城市韧性融入城市肌理，使原本的自然生态系统和未得到充分利用的城市区域得到再生。

人们对城市空间的期待在未来更为国际化，也更为本地化。一方面与国际的城市品质和宜居性看齐，但是这种品质又因为文化的独特发展呈现本地的特征，从而让人们真正地感受到“场所”的地方特色。

我们在几年前参加的浦江东岸开放空间贯通设计竞赛就是一个很好的例子。我们的设计理念是沿黄浦江岸栽植200万棵树，每一棵树属于上海的一个儿童，由此畅想上海在未来随着这片森林的成长而成熟。

China’s cities have been experiencing rapid development for decades, going through repositioning and urban renewal. An increasing number of projects are integrating the idea of resilience, allowing recovery and regeneration of the natural ecosystem and the underutilised urban spaces.

People expect urban spaces to be both rooted in the local, but of an international standard. They want world-class standards of quality of life and liveability with locally relevant features interwoven to create something truly unique.

Let’s take the Huangpu East Bank Urban Forest as an example. Our design concept is bold – to plant a forest of two million trees along the waterfront: one for each child so that as they grow up, they witness the development of Shanghai with the flourishing of this urban forest.

▼浦江东岸开放空间贯通设计竞赛 – 沿黄浦江岸栽植200万棵树，每一棵树属于上海的一个儿童，由此畅想上海在未来随着这片森林的成长而成熟 Huangpu East Bank Urban Forest – to plant a forest of two million trees along the waterfront, one for each child so that as they grow up, they witness the development of Shanghai with the flourishing of this urban forest.

还有今年国庆节正式开园的北京通州城市绿心森林公园，Hassell提出“二十四节气森林”的概念，将中国传统文化中二十四节气作为景观和体验主题塑造的核心。我们在这片城市绿心运用植物景观和空间场景营造，把自然和文化的故事传递给人，形成人与自然多层次的互动，也在自然的体验中深度理解中国的传统生态文明智慧。

Another example is the Beijing Tongzhou Green Central Forest Park which opened to the public over the National Holiday. Hassell proposed a concept centred around ‘24 seasons’, corresponding to 24 solar terms of the traditional Chinese calendar. The park was divided up into just as many parts that then play to these seasons. We curated experience journeys and shaped the place with carefully selected plants to pass the story of nature and culture on to the next generations. The park is a good example of how people can engage with nature and understand more about Chinese traditional wisdom.

▼北京通州城市绿心森林公园 Beijing Tongzhou Green Central Forest Park.

正在施工阶段的吉宝静安中心是一个高密度的混合区域，我们使用红砖作为建筑立面的设计语言，在一个非常现代的城市空间里来营造上海老静安的里弄街道的记忆，人流密集，沟通频繁，充满了生活的气息，让人愿意重复到访。

Our Park Avenue Central (PAC) project in the Jing’an District of Shanghai is a high density mixed-use project, blending premium office space with retail, natural and public art experiences, all within a vibrant, green public realm.

▼进行中的吉宝静安中心 Park Avenue Central project is in progress.

Q：可以跟我们详细介绍下深圳龙岗河干流碧道项目吗？目前推行的“碧道”研究与我们先前了解到的“绿道”有哪些不同？

Could you tell us more about the Shenzhen Longgang Blueway project? And what’s the difference between the concept of ‘Blueway’ and ‘Greenway’ that we are more familiar with?

广东省提出建设“万里碧道”的决策部署，要求统筹兼顾生态、水安全、文化、休闲和经济等功能。龙岗河碧道是深圳先行的“五河一湖”示范项目之一，旨在解决复杂水问题的同时通过构建高品质滨水空间，打造因水而兴，因水而美的城市。

Hassell和深规院联合团队赢得了龙岗河干流碧道的国际竞赛，现正参与项目的后续整合和示范段设计工作。

The Longgang Blueway project is a 24 km portion of the Five Rivers and One Lake program which will protect and enhance tens of thousands of kilometres of waterways in the Guangdong Province. Being one of the exemplar projects, the Longgang Blueway is committed to addressing the challenges the River faces while making the city prosperous and beautiful again by developing quality waterfront public spaces.

Hassell teamed up with local design institute UPDIS and has been announced as the winner of the competition, among strong international contenders. We are working on the downstream work and detailed design for the exemplar section.

▼深圳龙岗河干流碧道项目概念方案 – 将公共开放空间转化为多功能绿色基础设施 The Longgang Blueway project: transforming public open space into multi-functional green infrastructure.

我们希望未来水是城市社区的核心，所以围绕人和水的关系提出庇护、连接和传承三大设计原则。

将公共开放空间作为多功能绿色基础设施，以景观为综合手段和体验载体，在赋予文化意义之外，提供“生态系统服务功能”，帮助城市解决发展中面临的水与环境问题。

由于缺乏通行通道和目前无法通行的障碍，龙岗河与城市社区的关系薄弱。与水亲近，增加水岸到达是我们方案的主要目标之一：将公众连接到河边并沿河而行，并优先考虑行人和自行车的通畅的路径。

Our vision is to return ‘water’ to be the core of urban communities, so our three design principles are: shelter, connect and continue.

Longgang River is a key eco-corridor for the entire watershed with limited ecological space for flora and fauna to live and thrive. The design approach integrates the waterways and the urban parklands as ‘green infrastructure’ – eco-corridors that provide shelter for the flora and fauna of the river, and concurrently purifying the water discharged to the waterways.

The design proposed for Longgang River Blueway includes a 60km pedestrian and community ‘slow track’ on both sides of the river to improve access and help create a tourism and recreation grid, connecting the city with the water and the adjacent urban areas. By expanding the water edge, the new pedestrian network helps achieve the community-desired need for increased leisure, destination and fitness facilities.

▼深圳龙岗河干碧道项目——与水亲近，增加水岸到达 The Longgang Blueway project: By expanding the water edge, the new pedestrian network helps achieve the community.

龙岗河是客家文化的聚集地，沿河岸发生的集体活动是在地性文化的主要表达场所。我们通过增加公共活动空间让周边城市区域重新焕发活力，而公共空间的置入首先考虑对原有场所的活化利用并遵循本土的文化特征。

我们方案胜出的很大一部分原因，是将龙岗河碧道塑造为城市下一个阶段发展的推动器，实现生态生活生产的协调，治水治产治城的融合。这也是“碧道”的基本内核之一。

The design not only restores the eco-system and improves the quality of the landscape and river edge public realm, it also reimagines the waterfront as a centre for city and community development. At the same time, it creates cultural and recreational destinations that respect and recognize the southern Chinese Hakka cultural heritage.

The winning aspect of our design proposal I think is positioning Longgang River Blueway as a driver for the next stage of development of the entire city, therefore balancing between ecology, quality of life and production. And this is one of the essentials of ‘Blueway’ concept.

▼活动场所体现在地性文化，遵循本土的客家文化特征 The design creates cultural and recreational destinations that respect and recognize the southern Chinese Hakka cultural heritage.

Q：Hassell致力于对未来城市环境作出哪些改变？您对我们设计行业读者有哪些寄语分享？

Which areas will be the focus of Hassell to improve urban environments in future? And could you send a message to our audience in the design industry?

今后十年将会产生剧烈的社会变革，我们为人们所设计的空间、场所和城市将面临新的不同于以往的压力。在未来十年甚至更远的未来获得成功，包括我们在内的国际设计公司需要着重策略智慧和创意设计相结合。

比如，我们在几年前与体验设计专家Freestate合并，就是希望为我们的终端用户打造更独特丰富的体验，因为随着空间压力日益增加，用户和客户的要求也变得更高了。在很多项目里，我们强调“建造少些，体验更多”的原则，一方面可体验的媒介有很多，不一定要通过物理空间带来。这样可以方便更新，节约建设投入的成本。

未来的气候变化需要城市空间更具有韧性，我们致力一切加强城市和社区韧性的设计工作。此外我们非常强调利用大数据来进行一些空间使用模拟，数据能更精准和直观地体现场地使用的情况，并让我们及时寻找有效的解决措施。

随着优秀场所的价值不断提升，具有长远影响力的设计备受瞩目。出色的设计具有长远的目标。它能够应对各种复杂情况，不仅塑造物质世界，而且将影响我们的文化、生活和体验。

多元化的视角和开放的合作心态将激发创意和原创思维，从而应对愈发复杂的情况和日益增加的要求。最有影响力和持久的设计需要了解对关键事物有深刻的见解，也需要如了解最新的研究结果和科学技术。保持热情 – 不断对话和学习将驱动我们不断获得设计灵感！

The next decade promises to bring even more dramatic societal shifts and will place new and different pressures on the spaces, places and cities we design for people. To succeed over the next decade and beyond, international design businesses like ours will need to combine strategic intelligence with creative design.

A number of years ago, Hassell merged with FreeState, an experience design consultancy, who work to create more unique and rich experiences for end users of spaces. With the pressure of limited available spaces, the demand from users and our clients is changing. So in most of our projects, we advocate for ‘building less and experiencing more’ to introduce more creative ways of experience – rather than building physical and visible spaces. In this way, it’s easier to curate more up-to-date content for people to experience and also saves investment in construction.

The challenges climate change presents requires resilience for urban spaces. We are committed to bringing resilience to all of our urban and community work. We value the use of big data technology models for the spaces people will be using. Data helps us monitor and collect information and problems when the place is in use. Then, immediate responses and solutions are provided in a more timely manner.

As the value of well high quality places increases, so does the value of impactful design. Great design is ambitious. It deals with complexity to achieve outcomes that shape not only our physical world, but also our culture – our lives and experiences.

Diverse perspectives and open-minded collaboration unlock the creative, original thinking that is needed to navigate increasing complexities and requirements. The most powerful and enduring design requires insight about what matters most to people, as well as the latest research and technologies. Keep being passionate about design and open to conversations – these are key to being inspired!

▼Hassell近期项目作品——西澳大利亚Karratha健康医疗片区 Recent project by Hassell – Karratha Health Campus, Karratha.