Martha Schwartz Partners 是一家国际领先的设计事务所，他们相信城市景观能巧妙地平衡人与自然环境的关系，通过打造可持续发展的城市景观和公共设计，能促进城市各方面的健康发展。与此同时，MSP倡导与客户和利益相关方的参与式设计，允许每个人在平等的基础上讨论项目问题和对设想可能结果的关注，从内向外推进项目，并用他们标志性的、创新的，“打破成规”的思维来投资这一合作过程，他们的景观也因此而闻名，在风景园林领域的贡献不断被认可，获得了许多国际奖项，包括ASLA地标奖、ASLA荣誉奖、英国景观行业协会再生类奖项、芝加哥雅典纳奖最佳全球新设计奖、Cooper-Hewitt国家设计奖和城市土地研究所优秀奖等。
mooool团队聚焦景观设计行业，本期mooool专辑带来的是MSP合伙人张易文的专访。mooool每季度约访全球知名设计公司，传播展现优秀设计理念！
As a leading international design group Martha Schwartz Partners (MSP) understands the urban landscape as the platform upon which human and natural environments can be brought into an artful balance. Designing a project of urban landscapes and the public realm as the foundation for sustainable cities that are healthy across all aspects and sectors of urban life.
MSP evolves the project from the inside out is through the inclusive participatory design charrette with the clients and stakeholders. This design charrette is a high energy rapid brainstorming process that allows everyone on equal footing to hash out the project issues and concerns towards envisioning possible outcomes. MSP invests this collaborative process with their signature, innovative, ‘out-of-the-box’ thinking for which their landscapes are reknown. MSP has continually been recognized for its contribution to the field of landscape architecture. The firm has received many international award recognitions, including the ASLA Landmark Award, the ASLA Honour Award, the British Association of Landscape Industries Award in the Regeneration Category, the Chicago Athenaeum Award for Best New Global Design, the Cooper-Hewitt National Design Award and the Urban Land Institute Award for Excellence.
Mooool focuses on landscape architecture industry. In today’s interview, we introduce Yiwen Zhang, the director at Martha Schwartz Partners. We interview the prestigious design company around the world every quarter with the passion for showing the excellent design ideas.
总策划：陈科君 / Producer: Kejun Chen
编辑：王兰芳 / Editor: Via Wang
Interview: Mooool x Yiwen Zhang
导读摘要：
MSP那些知名的大胆艺术线条项目背后的工作理念是什么
事务所在市场宣传上是比较低调的，大部分人如果没有深入了解的话，熟悉MSP事务所无疑都是从玛莎舒瓦茨开始的，其实MSP从十多年来一直在践行‘应对气候变化’的设计。
玛莎在项目中所运用的那些“独特而夸张”的设计手法是基于对这个项目本身深刻的理解，深刻考虑景观在当中可以发挥的作用而来创造设计语言的，并非刻意追求表面形式。
在践行理念的实际过程中，发生过哪些故事，面对不同的声音是否会动摇
我们对气候问题的关注并不是一种转变，而是顺势而为，当人类生存环境受到严重的威胁的时候，设计师还单纯停留在追求视觉的美观上无疑是不合适的。
专家曾质疑我们的设计：项目所在地的土地资源非常宝贵，为什么我们要浪费那么大面积去做城市森林，看起来也不美，就像一片苗圃。他忽视了我们在述标过程中强调的整个项目从打造韧性城市空间为核心的出发点，他的点评是片面的。
MSP作为一家有社会责任感的知名设计公司，在任何状况下，都会坚持以应对全球气候变化作为我们的首要设计原则。
商业类项目是否会有更大的阻力，你们如何去应对
做商业项目的设计，更多地要去平衡运营和商管的需求，哪怕只是多种一棵树，业主都会说你遮挡了我黄金铺面的外立面。但我们可以假象一下在市中心黄金地段开设一家奢侈品旗舰店或者网红餐饮店，会因为乔木遮挡了他的招牌而没有人流吗？
我们一定会尽力去平衡和满足业主提出的需求，无论是设计上的还是运营上的，但是当理念发生根本性冲突的时候，或者说我们发现业主根不愿意理解我们坚持的设计原则的时候，我们往往选择不妥协。
对于国内外目前的景观行业发展，你的看法是什么
设计是为了使用者服务的，国外的管理者会尊重每一位社区成员，保证最后的结果能被所有人心悦诚服地接受。但是同时另一面，这样也直接导致了效率变低。这些经历让我学会辨证地看待问题，也能更客观地为解决问题达到最终目的提出合理的解决方案。
一个设计事务所成功与否可能看规模，看财务数据，看发展，但是一个设计师是否成功很大程度要看他对自己设计理念的坚持。在大国文化自信之下，我相信越来越多的中国设计师，会摸索出属于自己的设计哲学。
专访内容:
编者：虽然MSP及玛莎本人被大众所熟知，但我们并不甚了解作为大师事务所你们背后的工作理念是什么？
Although MSP and Martha Schwartz are well-known to the public, we don’t know much about the design philosophy behind your work as a master firm?
大家有这个疑惑可能主要有两个原因，首先是因为近年来事务所在市场宣传上是比较低调的，过去三年里我们从原先唯一的伦敦办公室扩展到了伦敦/纽约/上海三间办公室，我们的大部分精力都花在了事务所的内部搭建，和继续服务好全球范围的业主们。行业内熟悉MSP事务所无疑都是是玛莎舒瓦茨，也就是我们创始人，开始的。但是经过这几年开设新的办公室，搭建新的团队，我们已经向着品牌化的事务所更迈进了一步。我们希望在准备充分的时候，以一个团队的整体形象面向我们的业主和整个行业，而不是再仅仅是依托玛莎老师一个人的名字而被大家所认可。
其实MSP从2010年开始一直在致力于“应对气候变化”的设计，十多年来，我们也一直坚持在每一个项目中实践这一重要理念，包括玛莎本人仍在哈佛做着这个课题的研究。MSP现在的设计作品是能将艺术设计，生态设计，城市功能结合在一起打造出的面向未来的设计。
There may be two main reasons for this doubt. The first is that the firm has been relatively low-key in market publicity in recent years. In the past three years, we have expanded from our London office to three offices in London / New York / Shanghai. We spend most of our energy on the internal construction of the firm and continue to serve the clients around the world. It is undoubted that people who are familiar with MSP firm in the industry know Martha Schwartz, our founder first. But after opening new offices and building new teams over the past few years, we have taken one step closer to being a branded firm. We hope that when we are fully prepared, we will face our clients and the entire industry with the overall image of a team, instead of relying on the name of Teacher Martha.
In fact, MSP has been committed to the design of “composing climate change” since 2010. For more than ten years, we have been insisting on implementing this important concept in every project, and Martha herself is still working on this subject at Harvard. MSP’s current design works are future-oriented designs that can combine art design, ecological design, and urban functions.
▼MSP部分作品展示（点击阅读更多） Click to read more MSP works on mooool
编者：那么您加入MSP的契机是？目前在MSP负责哪些版块？
So why did you choose join MSP? Which sections are you currently in charge of in MSP?
目前我作为MSP事务所全球五位合伙人之一，负责的是事务所整个亚洲区域的业务。关于加入MSP的契机，其实我出生在一个建筑世家，从小耳濡目染对建筑，园林，城市规划都有着深入的解读。从北林本科毕业后我也曾在不同的设计事务所工作过，后来去到英国谢菲尔德求学深造，留在英国工作又再到回国，也曾经历过自己创业，这些丰富的经历让我一路走来更加深刻地认识到自己追求的理想到底是什么，自己适合的职业发展定位到底是什么。
我第一次拜访MSP事务所，也是第一次见到玛莎本人是2011年在伦敦办公室里，当时她向我仔细地介绍了伦敦办公室在做的每个项目，亲切地完全不像书本里只能令人仰望的大师。我深深地被她的设计哲学打动，第一次如此全面和深刻地理解了在她那些“与众不同”的设计语言背后更深层次的用意。她在项目中所运用的那些“独特而夸张”的设计手法是基于对这个项目本身深刻的理解，包括在地文化，城市肌理、社区功能，以及整个生态系统，还有我们现在讲的气候变化，深刻考虑景观在当中可以发挥的作用而来创造设计语言的。初次相见后的多年时间里，无论是在我后来的求学还是工作期间，玛莎一直都给了我很多指导，而我也从内心更加地认同她以及MSP事务所坚持的设计哲学。当我多年后正式加入MSP时，我们其实早已彼此熟知彼此信任。
At present, as one of the five global partners of MSP firm, I am responsible for the firm’s business in the entire Southeast Asia region. Regarding the opportunity to join MSP, in fact, I was born in a family of architects, and I have had an in-depth understanding of architecture, gardens, and urban planning since I was young. After graduating from BJFU(Beijing Forestry University), I worked in different design firms. Later, I went to Sheffield, UK for further study. I stayed and worked in the UK for a couple of years. Finally I returned to China and started my own business. These rich experiences made me understand more deeply what the ideal I am pursuing and what is the suitable career development positioning for me.
The first time I visited the MSP office, and also the first time I saw Martha in the flesh in the London office in 2011, she introduced me carefully to every project that the London office was doing. She is not at all as kindly as a master who can only be looked up to in a book. I was deeply touched by her design philosophy. For the first time, I have so comprehensively and deeply understood the deeper meaning behind her “out of the ordinary” design language. The “unique and exaggerated” design techniques she used in the project are based on a deep understanding of the project itself, including local culture, urban texture, community functions, and the entire ecosystem, as well as the climate change we are talking about. And she created a design language by deeply considering the role that landscape can play in it. For many years after the first meeting, Martha has been offered me a lot of guidance, both during my later studies and work, and I gradually agree with her and the design philosophy that MSP insists sincerely. When I officially joined MSP many years later, we actually knew each other and trusted each other a lot.
MSP背后的生态理念：1996年完成的温斯洛农场保护，通过改良土壤修复植物生命，将现代巴洛克花园艺术与农业实用性生态相结合 Winslow Farm Conservancy, Hammonton, NJ, USA: This is a large-scale agricultural project that was designed as a marriage between art and the practicalities of reclamation and ecology. Soils were amended by mixing the harvested wood that had been chipped so to incorporate organic matter and to aerate the sterile clay. This mixture would eventually support plant life.
MSP背后的生态理念：1995年完成的约克维尔公园，将当地特色的地域景观融入城市并展开新的诠释，根据这一主题，运用当地主要植物类型和群落包括：松树林、安大略野花和草地、白杨林、混合草本和蕨类园等，在不同的季节提供多样性，也为鸣禽提供食物和栖息地 Village of Yorkville Park, Toronto, Canada: The landscape design is an interpretation of the 19th Century practice of bringing specimens of the native landscape into the city. Using this theme, the major plant types and communities include: pine grove, Ontario wild flowers and grasses, an aspen grove, mixed herbaceous border, and fern garden. Native plant material is selected to provide variety through the changing seasons, and food and habitat for song birds.
MSP背后的生态理念：1995年完成的约克维尔公园，“空地”项目的主景是新建的封闭玻璃地铁入口和一个突出的大型雕塑岩石，它让人联想起本地的“加拿大盾”基岩 Village of Yorkville Park, Toronto, Canada: Major features of the “clearing” are a new glass enclosed subway entrance, a large sculptural rock outcropping recalling the native “Canadian Shield” bedrock formation.
编者：我们注意到了MSP在致力宣传应对气候变化的景观设计，那么是什么原因让你们转向生态都市景观？当您参与讲座、论坛，宣传玛莎应对气候变化的生态理念的时候，您感觉到市场和行业对这种转变的接受度怎么样？
We have noticed that MSP is committed to promoting landscape design that addresses climate change and we are also trying to promote this matter, so I would like to ask that what caused the change in the office’s design philosophy? When you participate in lectures and forums to promote Martha’s ecological concept of climate change, how do you feel about the market and the industry’s response to this shift?
疫情之前，玛莎连续两年都到中国来做了一些列有关气候变化的巡回讲座。当时很多听众都挺诧异的，大家都期待玛莎带来新的夺人眼球的项目分享，但是她却花了两个小时和大家解释气候灾难的影响。其实玛莎对气候问题的关注，以及事务所对相关课题的研究和实践并不是一种转变，而时顺势而为。当人类生存环境受到严重的威胁，生命安全都不能得以保障的时候，设计师还单纯停留在追求视觉的美观上无疑是不合适的。我们的社会责任告诉我们，必须优先于其他所有先考虑生态问题，才是能面向未来的设计。所以从2010年开始，MSP就树立了将生态设计，功能设计，艺术设计统一在一起的设计目标和策略，并且在每个项目上都坚持践行。
如果说市场和行业的反馈，其实从讲座听众的反应中就能略猜得一二，这几年我听到最多的客户反馈就是MSP的设计没有那么“疯狂”了，没有那么“富有创意”了，甚至有业主会对我说如果要请擅长生态设计的事务所何必找MSP。我们曾经参与一个大型市政公共项目的投标，在述标会上被一位专家这样质疑我们的设计，专家说项目所在地的土地资源非常宝贵，为什么我们要浪费那么大面积去做城市森林，看起来也不美，就像一片苗圃。专家还说他理解我们希望做应对气候变化的设计，但是在这个项目里种一片“苗圃”就能对抗和改变气候变化是不现实的？客观来说专家的观点也没有错。但是他忽视了我们在述标过程中强调的整个项目从打造韧性城市空间为核心的出发点，也毫不在乎我们的述标文本来化了几十页用数据论证的城市森林的富氧量，蓄水能力和经济价值。他的点评是片面的。以至于我不得不当场回应他，我能理解他不可能不喜欢我们的设计，但是我并不认同他对城市森林价值的评判以及对气候问题的态度。正因为城市土地资源宝贵，我们才希望能在这个难得的地块以城市森林的方式来实现生态价值最大化，同时大面积的未硬化表面和地形处理结合得当可以使得这个场地成为这座城市在极端降雨的情况下非常大的一片蓄水地。
Before the epidemic, Martha came to China for two consecutive years to give a series of lecture tours on climate change. At that time, many listeners were surprised, because they expected Martha to bring new eye-catching projects to share, but she spent two hours explaining the impact of the climate disaster. In fact, Martha’s attention to climate issues and the firm’s research and practice on related topics are not a changeover, but just follow the trend. When the human living environment is seriously threatened and life safety cannot be guaranteed, it is undoubtedly inappropriate for designers to only pursue visual beauty. Our social responsibility allows us to consider ecological issues first in priority to all others before we can design for the future. Therefore, since 2010, MSP has stuck to design goals and strategies that unify ecological design, functional design, and art design, and has adhered to practice in every project.
If you talk about the feedback from the market and the industry, you can actually tell from the responses of the lecture audiences. The most feedback I have heard from customers in the past few years is that the design of MSP is not that “crazy” and not that “creative”, some clients even told me that if they want to hire a firm that is good at eco-design, MSP is not the best choice. We once participated in the bidding of a large municipal public project. At the bidding meeting, an expert questioned our design: “ The land resources where the project is located are very precious, why do you waste such a large area to build urban forests? It’s not beautiful, just like a nursery.” That expert also said that he understands that we hope to make a design to deal with climate change, but it is unrealistic that planting a “nursery” in this project can fight and change climate change. Objectively speaking, the opinion of the expert is not wrong. However, he ignored the starting point of the whole project that regards building a resilient urban space as the core, and he didn’t care about the dozens of pages of data in our bidding text that demonstrate the oxygen enrichment of urban forests, water capacity and economic value. His comment is one-sided. So I had to respond to him on the spot that I can understand that he dislikes our design, but I do not agree with his judgment on the value of urban forests and his attitude towards climate issues. It is precisely because of the precious urban land resources that we hope to maximize the ecological value of this rare land in the form of urban forests. At the same time, the proper combination of the large area of unhardened surface and topographic treatment can make this site become the city’s large water storage area in the event of extreme low rainfall.
▼北京大兴机场森林公园投标——目的是鼓励用森林化的方式去做城市景观，形成一个小的生态系统，而非简单树木孤植。因为树木种植的意义不仅在于美观、遮荫等，而是树木的地下根系之间相互的连接，促成微生物在地下进行物质转换，对于土壤修复十分有益。另外，MSP认为吸引人群的地标性设计与生态森林并不矛盾，森林里设置的大量活动空间，以另外一种纬度来供人们使用，从而产生经济效益，而不是简单直白地创造一个光怪陆离的区域性目的地 Bidding for Beijing Daxing Airport Forest Park-The purpose is to encourage the use of forest-based urban landscape to form a small ecosystem, instead of simply planting trees alone. Because the significance of tree planting lies not only in beauty, shade, etc., but also in the mutual connection between underground roots of trees, which promotes the material transformation of microorganisms underground and is very beneficial to soil remediation. In addition, MSP believes that the landmark design that attracts people is not in contradiction with the ecological forest. A large number of activity spaces set in the forest attract people to use in another way, thus generating economic benefits, instead of simply creating an exaggerated and weird regional destination.
应对气候变化是每一个人都应该为之努力的方向，没有任何人有能力立刻改变气候变化的事实。但是MSP作为一家有社会责任感的知名设计公司，在任何状况下，都会坚持以应对全球气候变化作为我们的首要设计原则。
Responding to climate change is the direction that everyone should work for, though no one has the ability to change the fact that climate change immediately. However, as a well-known design company with a sense of social responsibility, MSP will adhere to responding to global climate change as our primary design principle under any circumstances.
编者：那你们做商业开发类的项目也会遇到这种问题吗？
Will you encounter the same problem when facing commercial development projects?
我们现在所坚持的韧性城市，应对气候变化等理念，在很多大尺度的公建投标项目上，还能依托大尺度的公共绿地为基础，来实现一些生态设计上的理想，多一些发挥空间。但是在商业项目，推广这样的理念就更困难了。做商业项目的设计，更多地要去平衡运营和商管的需求，而运营考虑的是短期的经济效益和商铺的出租率，视线的无遮挡，人流的可达性，往往哪怕我们只是多种一棵树，业主都会说你遮挡了我黄金铺面的外立面。所以每每我们汇报方案，和开发公司的商管团队之间的冲突是最大的。我个人始终认为这种冲突时完全没有必要的，是金子总会闪闪发光，我们可以假象一下在市中心黄金地段开设一家奢侈品旗舰店或者网红餐饮店，会因为乔木遮挡了他的招牌而没有人流吗？
之前在一个讲座上，有人曾问我当我们在做商业项目时如果面对这样和业主之间理念上的冲突会怎么办。首先我们一定会尽力去平衡和满足业主提出的需求，无论是设计上的还是运营上的，但是当理念发生根本性冲突的时候，或者说我们发现业主根不愿意理解我们坚持的设计原则的时候，我们往往选择不妥协。我们也特别希望业主既然选择了我们，就能充分认同和信任我们的专业水平和专业判断，这样大家才能向着同一个目标努力，完成优秀的作品。
We now adhere to the concepts of resilient cities and climate change. In many large-scale public construction bidding projects, we can rely on large-scale public green spaces to realize some ideals in ecological design and spare more space to create. But in commercial projects, it is even more difficult to promote such a concept. In the design of commercial projects, more attention should be paid to balance the needs of operation and commercial management, and the operation considers short-term economic benefits and the occupancy rate of shops, the unobstructed view, and the accessibility of the flow of people. Sometimes even if we only plant one extra tree and the client will think that we have blocked his golden paved facade. Therefore, whenever we report a plan, there is always conflict with the commercial management team of the development company. Personally, I always think that this kind of conflict is completely unnecessary. Like the old saying: gold will always shine. We can imagine that if we open a luxury flagship store or an online celebrity restaurant in a prime location in the city center, will there be lack of flow because of the block of the tree?
In a lecture before, someone asked me what we would do if we faced such a conflict of ideas with the clients when we were doing commercial projects. First of all, we will try our best to balance and meet the needs of the clients both in design and operation, but when there is a fundamental conflict between concepts, or when we find that the clients are not willing to understand the design principles we adhere to, we often choose not to compromise. We also especially hope that since the clients have chosen us, they can fully recognize and trust our professional skills and judgment, so that we together can work towards the same goal and complete excellent works.
▼不变的设计原则：MSP近期落地的四川自贡项目 Constant design principle: Sichuan Zigong project recently completed by MSP
编者：最近MSP有哪些新项目落地或者即将落地，然后它们有那些生态的亮点或是可以代表你们应对气候变化的策略？可以给我们介绍一下。
What new projects have been completed or will be completed in MSP recently, and what ecological strategies have they adopted?
那还是以我们在2019年底建设完成的项目顺德华侨城欢乐海岸为例，这个项目的典型意义在于首先他是个城市空间里的文旅商业综合体，其次整个项目的规划设计上就凸显了中西交融的特色语言，第三在整个项目的设计和完成的过程中，业主自身的专业性，对于设计师的尊重，以及各个相关专业顾问之间的良好协作都是最后项目成功落地必不可少的基石。所以我觉得非常有参考和借鉴的意义。
顺德欢乐海岸规划上是一个开放式商业街区的形态，我们以构建活力滨水生活为出发点，以低碳城市作为街区打造的目标，以中西融合传承岭南文化为设计原则，赋予了该项目人文及社会经济的最大价值。整个项目的核心理念首先是利用开放式街区的格局，创造一个连续完整的海绵网格。整个海绵网格覆盖了所有景观空间，并将对地表水的管理和再运用做成一个自运行的完成系统，保水，蓄水，净水，用水都在这个系统内可持续地工作。
其次我们才考虑具体的设计语言和设计主题，最终确定了从本地自然景观和传统岭南园林中获得灵感并提取出“岩石”的设计语绘，在空间的功能划分上也自然形成了“城市边界，村落，水岸”的三个层次，分别为项目的运营提供了多样化的丰富空间。第三步在核心理念和设计语言确定的基础上，我们具体在项目中设计实施了各种生态设计的措施，比如最大程度设置透水铺装面，沿水岸设置生态浮岛，在商业内街线性地布局雨水花园，在主要的节点广场也尽可能地布局过滤种植池等。有很多海绵设施在最后落地的过程中被发现和一些商业界面发生了冲突，我们也非常感谢业主团队在尽可能保留原设计核心理念的前提下，同我们一同争取做了最大程度的保留。
最后项目落地很多业主去参观，给我的反馈是这个项目在初看图纸时并没有体会到多大的特别之处，但是一到现场就很触动。项目最终呈现出的现代和传统的设计语言之间的碰撞和融合，已经层次分明的空间结构，独具匠心的细节考虑都给参观者留下了深刻的印象。
Let’s take the project Shunde Overseas Chinese Town (OCT) Happy Coast that we completed at the end of 2019 as an example. The typical significance of this project is that it is a cultural and tourism commercial complex in an urban space firstly. Secondly, the planning and design of the whole project highlights the characteristic of Chinese and Western integration. Thirdly, in the process of designing and completing the entire project, the client’s own professionalism, respect to the designer, and good collaboration between the relevant professional consultants are all essential cornerstones for the successful final implementation of the project. So I think it is very meaningful for reference and discussion.
Shunde Happy Coast is planned as an open commercial block. We take the construction of a vibrant waterfront life as the starting point, a low-carbon city as the goal of block building, and the design principle of integrating Chinese and Western culture and inheriting Lingnan culture, giving the project the greatest value of humanity and social economy. Firstly, the core concept of the whole project is to use the pattern of open blocks to create a continuous and complete sponge grid. The entire sponge grid covers the whole landscape spaces, and the management and reuse of surface water is made into a self-operating complete system. Water preservation, storage, water purification, and water use all work in this system sustainably. And then we started to consider the specific design language and design theme, and finally determined the theme that was inspired by the local natural landscape and traditional Lingnan gardens and extracted the “rock”. The three levels of “urban boundary,village, waterfront” which naturally formed in the functional division of space provide diversified and rich spaces for project operations.
In the third step, on the basis of the core concept and design language, we have specifically designed and implemented various ecological design measures in the project, such as setting up permeable pavement to the greatest extent, setting up ecological floating islands along the water bank, arranging rainwater gardens linearly in the commercial inner street, and filter planting ponds as much as possible in the main node square. Many sponge facilities were found to have conflicts with some commercial interfaces during the final landing process. We are very grateful to the client team for working with us to make the greatest degree of retention while retaining the core concept of the original design as much as possible.
In the end, many clients visited the project. The feedback given to me was that people did not realize much speciality when they first saw the drawings, but it was very touched when they arrived on the site. The collision and fusion between the modern and traditional design languages that the project finally presented, the layered spatial structure, and the original detailed considerations all left a deep impression on the visitors.
▼顺德华侨城欢乐海岸——在商业街区放大海绵城市效果，模糊景观与建筑界限 Shunde Happy Coast: Enlarge the sponge city effect in the commercial district, blur the boundary between landscape and architecture
在坚持生态都市主义的同时，将艺术化的设计手法跟城市空间相结合：北七家科技商业园区，运用矩形的带状图案，变幻组合成一套独有的线性美学，营造出多样化的高绿化率功能与景观空间，让人流连忘返 Beiqijia Technology Business (BTB) District, Beijing, China: A rectangular, shifting ground plane pattern of strips form an aesthetic tactic that is rigorously applied forging a unique and memorable identity for the entire site.
立陶宛维尔纽斯广场，通过结合创新的可持续性和城市规划策略，以景观抽象呈现当地地形地貌的变化，创造一个“涌动的景观”的整体设计叙事，重新激活步行街和广场 Vilnius Plaza, Vilnius, Lithuania: combined with innovative sustainability and urbanism strategies. These physical topographical changes through the landscape were abstracted to create the overall design narrative of a “surging landscape.”
厦门时代中心，这个“撇石”概念象征着在平静的反射湖中掠过石头的行为，以这种方式产生越来越多的涟漪，这些不断扩大的同心涟漪向外辐射，代表着龙湖前行的思想、理念和哲学 Times Central Sales Center, Xiamen, China: Symbolizing the act of skimming stones across a calm reflective lake in such a way that creates ever-increasing ripples. These expanding, concentric ripples radiate outwards across the site in representation of the thoughts, ideas and philosophies of Longfor moving forward.
舍得酒业“泉水牌坊“：以”流水瀑布“为设计理念，通过抽象的表现方式，把牌坊与舍得大道的生态绿廊连接在一起，体现舍得生态酿酒的价值理念
编者：那么您上次参加的第四届滨水空间规划研讨会，有很多国际先锋事务所都参与了，这些大师事务所，针对这些景观问题，是否共同倡导同一理念？
Last time you attended the 4th Waterfront Space Planning Seminar, many international pioneer firms also participated in it. Did they advocate the same idea for these landscape problems?
对，之前我也在国内其实也参加过很多大型的研讨会，也代表MSP在各类学术交流或者商业交流的会议上进行发声，分享我们现在核心的设计理念，我们也在和许多国际同行进行交流和持续探讨。包括像最近MSP也和其他众多已经在国内落地的国际设计事务所一同筹划组织了国际设计机构联盟，联盟也在积极推动有关应对气候变化的设计这个大的课题，并把国际上先进的做法和措施，从规划到落地，在国内进行经验的分享。我相信在大家共同的传播和努力推动下，这个话题会逐渐成为推动新一轮城市规划发展和落地设计的核心思想，而不仅仅再是作为一个设计文本中配角或者专篇出现。
Yes, I have actually participated in many large-scale seminars in China before. I also spoke on behalf of MSP at various academic or business exchange meetings, sharing our current core design concepts, and we are also working with many international colleagues for communication and continuous discussion. Recently MSP together with many other international design firms that have already set up in China organized the international design agency alliance which is actively promoting the design of climate change, and sharing international advanced practices and measures, from planning to implementation with the profession in China. I believe that with everyone’s common dissemination and efforts, this topic will gradually become the core idea in promoting a new round of urban planning development and landing design, rather than just appearing as a supporting role or special article in a design text.
编者：问了那么多关于MSP事务所的问题，那么接下来有几个关于您个人的问题。您觉得在国外学习工作的这段经历，让您最印象深刻的事情是什么？
I have asked so many questions about the MSP firm, and here are a few personal questions about you. What do you think is the most impressive thing about this experience of studying and working abroad?
我觉得还是中西方文化之间的差异和意识形态的不同，这种根源上的不同才导致了很多行为和处事方式的不同。最初在英国本地的设计事务所工作的时候，我那个时候参与了很多小型的城市更新项目，在苏格兰的历史名城格拉斯哥和爱丁堡。这样的项目在英国规划设计公示后可能会历经数年方案不得已通过，就是因为社区意见没有统一，而他们的执行者是绝对不会为了达到改造的目的而强行执行方案的。结果就是漫长而无尽的等待，地块始终没有得到更新。
在这个过程中我学会了更客观地，从两面来看待这个事情，从好的一面城市的管理者真正做到了尊重每一个使用者，设计是为了使用者服务的，而每一个社区成员都应该被尊重，民主的投票和规范的流程和透明清晰的规则最后使得结果能被所有人心悦诚服地接受。但是同时从另一面，这样的流程直接导致了效率变低，城市的基础设施不能快速得到更新，最终社区的成员们也没有从中获得任何益处。正式因为多年国内外的学习工作生活的阅历，让我现在能从多角度更加辨证地看待问题，也能更客观地为解决问题达到最终目的提出合理的解决方案。
I think it is the differences between Chinese and Western cultures and ideologies. This difference in root causes a lot of different behaviors and ways of doing things. When I first worked in a local design firm in the UK, I was involved in many small urban renewal projects at that time, in the historic cities of Glasgow and Edinburgh in Scotland. It may take several years for such projects to be approved after the British planning and design is published, because there is no unity of community opinions, and their implementers will never force the implementation of the project to achieve the purpose of transformation. The result is a long and endless wait, and the plot has never been updated.
In the process, I learned to look at this matter more objectively and from both sides. From the good side, the city’s managers truly respected every user, the design serves for the user, and every community member should be respected, democratic voting and standardized processes and transparent and clear rules finally make the results acceptable to everyone. But at the same time, from the other side, such a process directly leads to low efficiency, the city’s infrastructure cannot be updated quickly, and ultimately the members of the community do not get any benefits from it. Thanks to years of experience in study, work and life at home and abroad, I am now able to view problems more dialectically from multiple perspectives and propose reasonable solutions to solve problems and achieve the ultimate goal more objectively.
编者：我们发现您的履历上，当时从英国回国后并没有马上加入MSP，而是进入乡伴文旅做了“乡伴绿乐园”项目，能不能谈谈这段经历？这种乡村开发项目，您现在回过头来怎么看？
We found in your resume that you did not join MSP immediately after returning from the UK, but joined the Xband to do the “Green Park” project. Can you talk about this experience? How do you look back on this kind of rural development project?
这一段经历就是我前面提到的创业经历了，可以说这是我作为一个设计师职业发展生涯中很宝贵的一段经历，也很感谢乡伴和朱胜萱老师在过程中给我的提携和帮助。当时朱总的团队时，其实还没有乡伴的这个品牌，我从英国回来，了解到朱总他们在做国内的乡村复兴，这个话题引起了我极大的兴趣。一方面因为我是土生土长的上海人，对于中国的乡村时缺乏深刻认知的，另一方面我在英国读研究生时正好选择了乡村旅游规划的课题，所以理论结合实践的决心让我决定跟着朱老师走到乡村去看一看，闯一闯。
现在回想起来整个创业的过程充满艰辛和感动。在乡伴品牌从无到有的初创3年时间里，从我们的初创团队在缺乏资金支持，缺乏专业人员配备的情况下，包揽了乡伴第一批落地项目的整个开发全过程，从设计、拿地、融资、招标、施工管理、运营筹备、招商等各个环节上每个人都要全程参与，处理各种设计师根本想象不到的复杂问题……大家当时互相开玩笑，觉得我们就是新时代上山下乡新青年，言语间都充满了骄傲和自豪。
我当时主要负责了绿乐园这个产品，因为自己的孩子刚刚出生，成长于大城市的我希望能给孩子一个回归自然的童年，所以才主动领命打造了周庄绿乐园的产品。乡村的复兴，我觉得是一门必修课，不是选修课。尽管现在我已经不主要参与乡伴的具体事务，但是仍经常和朱总交流也会时常去项目上看看。乡村复兴道阻且长，这是一个值得一直研究下去的课题。乡伴的伙伴们仍在继续努力探索着，也有其他更多优秀的品牌和伙伴们加入了乡村复兴的大军，我相信一定能找到一条适合中国乡村的路径。同时结合我现在对于生态和气候变化的思索，我认为我们的乡村发展有机会做到真正的可持续发展，一定不能简单地把城市发展过去二十年的东西拷贝拿来用在乡村，除了保留乡村的文化特色，更重要地是保护乡村的生态特色，充分考虑生态环境的保育，低碳技术和材料的运用，将建设对环境的影响控制到最低。
This is the entrepreneurship experience I mentioned earlier. It can be said that this is a very valuable experience in my career as a designer. I am very grateful to my fellow villager and Mr. Zhu Shengxuan for their guidance and help in the process. At that time, Mr. Zhu’s team did not actually have this brand of village companions. When I came back from the UK I learned that Mr. Zhu and his team were doing rural revival in China. This topic aroused my great interest. On the one hand, I am a native of Shanghai, I lacked a deep understanding of the Chinese countryside. On the other hand, I happened to choose the topic of rural tourism planning when I was a graduate student in the UK. Therefore, my determination to combine theory with practice made me decide to follow Mr. Zhu to the country.
In retrospect, the entire entrepreneurship process was full of hardships and emotions. In the 3 years since the start-up of the village companions brand from scratch, our start-up team has taken over the entire development process of the first batch of projects of village companions in the absence of financial support and lack of professional staff. Everyone must participate in all aspects of the process, such as design, land acquisition, financing, bidding, construction management, operation preparation, investment promotion, etc., as well as deal with complex issues that designers can’t even imagine… Everyone was joking about each other that we are New Youth who go to the mountains and the countryside in the new era, and our words are full of pride and honour.
At that time, I was mainly responsible for the product of Green Paradise. Because my child was just born and I, who grew up in a big city, hope to give the child a childhood back to nature, so I took the initiative to create the product of Zhouzhuang Green Paradise. I think the revival of the countryside is a compulsory course, not an elective course. Although I am no longer mainly involved in the specific affairs of village companions, I still often communicate with Mr. Zhu and visit the project frequently. Rural rejuvenation is a long-term obstacle, and this is a subject worthy of continued study. The partners of the village companions are still working hard to explore, and there are more outstanding brands and partners who have joined the army of rural revival. I believe that a path suitable for the Chinese countryside will be found. At the same time, combined with my current thinking about ecology and climate change, I think that our rural development has the opportunity to achieve truly sustainable development. We must not simply use the copy of the urban development in the past two decades in the countryside, except for keeping the cultural characteristics of the countryside, more importantly, we must protect the ecological characteristics of the countryside and fully consider the conservation of the ecological environment, the use of low-carbon technologies and materials, and minimize the impact of construction on the environment.
▼易文在乡村复兴领域的作品-乡伴绿乐园 Yiwen’s works in the field of rural revival – Xband Green Park
编者：您个人有没有想过在国际上推广中国的现代景观，现在我们认为中国现代景观其实还在发展阶段，现在的大师们有没有想过要怎么去推动，大家的想法是怎样的？
首先这个答案是肯定的。我觉得现代风景园林/景观学科发展至今都没有形成特别清晰的流派，这是我们落后于建筑设计的地方。我其实和很多中国当代的风景园林代表大师都交流过这个问题，我觉得他们都可以代表这个学科在国内的最高水平的，比如拿我师从多年的马晓暐老师来举例，在他的作品里可以很清晰地看到他如何将对自然山水的理解和尊重与场地设计结合起来，最大程度地利用地形来塑造丰富变化而富有层次的空间。同时他把自己对中国传统园林和文化的理解融入到空间的塑造和细节的把控中去，完成的作品是十分精彩且有内涵的。
一个设计事务所成功与非可能看规模，看财务数据，看发展，但是一个设计师是否成功很大程度要看他对自己设计理念的坚持。玛莎之所以被学科和行业所认可，并不是因为人人都喜欢她的设计，而是因为她一直坚持做自己，坚持将都市主义和自然主义结合在一起处理城市公共空间的问题，所以我们说这样的设计师，是大师，是学科发展的先锋人物。
在大国文化自信之下，我相信越来越多的中国设计师，会摸索出属于自己的设计哲学设计哲学，这些汇聚在一起就是中国当代风景园林发展的基石。而我自己，也愿意投身其中，尽我的力量在国际的舞台上为中国的现代景观设计发声。
First of all, the answer is yes. I feel that the development of modern landscape architecture/landscape disciplines has not yet formed a particularly clear genre. This is what we lag behind in architectural design. In fact, I have communicated this issue with many contemporary Chinese landscape architecture masters. I think they can represent the highest level of this discipline in China. Take the teacher Ma Xiaowei, whom I have studied for many years with, as an example, it is clear in his works that he combined his understanding and respect for natural landscapes with site design, and made the greatest use of topography to create a rich, varied and hierarchical space. At the same time, he integrates his understanding of Chinese traditional gardens and culture into the shaping of space and the control of details, and the completed works are very exciting and connotative.
The success of a design firm depends on the scale, financial data, and development. However, the success of a designer largely depends on his adherence to his design philosophy. The reason why Martha is recognized by disciplines and industries is not because everyone likes her design, but because she has always insisted on being herself, and insisted on combining urbanism and naturalism to deal with urban public space issues. So we say that such a designer is a master and a pioneer in the development of the discipline.
With the strong country cultural confidence, I believe that more and more Chinese designers will find out their own design philosophy. Altogether, these are the cornerstones of the development of contemporary Chinese landscape architecture. And I am willing to participate in it and do my best to speak for Chinese modern landscape design on the international stage.
编者：希望这次的专访，也是一次生态意识的传播。
I hope this interview is also a spread of ecological awareness.
也感谢木藕的邀请和记录，对于MSP，我希望此篇采访可以加深各位读者对于我们事务所更全面的认知。对于中国未来的景观设计的发展，我希望这篇文章能引起大家对于学科和专业未来发展的共同思考。最重要的，我希望能唤醒所有人对于气候变化的重视，特别是我们这些专业相关的人士，共同努力挽救我们共同的生存环境。
I also thank MOOOOL for the invitation and recording. Regarding MSP, I hope this interview can deepen readers’ comprehensive understanding of our firm. Regarding the future development of landscape design in China, I hope this article can arouse everyone’s common thinking about the future development of disciplines and professions. Most importantly, I hope to awaken everyone’s attention to climate change, especially those of us who are professionally related, to work together to save our common living environment.
最后感谢张易文女士对本次采访的深度配合，感谢MSP各相关对接人员的协调与帮助！
Thanks to Yiwen Zhang for the deep cooperation in this interview, as well as the coordination and assistance of everyone involved.
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